Find Dealer. Reply. Fluid pressure is maintained by an off-axis main pump that can vary the displacement depending on the load. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. As with earlier Hydramatics, the 6L80 will accept either the 258mm or 300mm torque converters. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. Unlike the 4L60E and 4L80E, the 6L80 is not always referred to as with the E on the end because its been over 25 years since the last non electronic GM transmission has been in production. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . LT). In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. Every modern GM vehicle has one of these sheets in its glove compartment. However, it is a long transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5. For a type B code, the fault must be present after two consecutive ignition cycles, otherwise, the MIL will not illuminate (however, a pending code will store). Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. If thats the case, the valve body will have to be replaced to correct these concerns. They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. *$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. Thats a great question. Thank You.. Jef, Swapping a LS3 and 6 spd trans in , In place of a 454 and a turbo 400 3 spd, I currently have posi rear, Big yolk drive shaft, after the conversion, will i need to mess with the rear gear, or will I be ok for around town and occasional red light duel. Become a 6L80-E and 6L90-E expert now! Had transmission rebuilt (Pro).My problem is that when it gets around 35, 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification, TH400 Transmission Specs, ID, and Common Problems, Mazda 6 P0320: Meaning, Causes, & Diagnosis. This transmission makes an excellent conversion transmission due to its adaptability into most Jeeps longer than CJ5s. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. Reactions: me32. Jeff Smith: The TCI six-speed automatic is indeed a revamped or upgraded 4L80E. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. There are too many differences between in communication protocols and renders the transmission nonfunctional. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. Here's Why The 10R80 Is The Best 10 Speed Transmission - HotCars We Specialize In: GM LS Conversions Engine & Trans Combo Kits Unique Ready to Run Engines Have a question? The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. In addition to developing innovative, quality repairs for transmissions, Sonnax is also the premier, full-line supplier of components to the torque converter remanufacturing industry. If the transmission is in the vehicle you can use the RPO tag in the glove compartment. The 6L80 was used in trucks, particularly in the GMT 900 platform. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. Application RWD & 4WD / AWD Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. Subscribe Now This is the abridged version of my problem. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. Reverse 4.87. Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. High Performance Transmission Rebuilds & Upgrades | Circle D During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. 3. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. The band number is printed on the solenoids in the location shown and will be a 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 (Figure 3). Thx A sectioned image of the 4L60-E TMBX and 6L80, 6L90 JMBX (Figure 3) shows the external profiles of the respective front covers are very similar. A JMBX torque converter rebuilt with a Sonnax forged cover and piston has proven to be a successful recipe for a long-lasting unit, preventing this typical pattern failure. vehicle weights. Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. yr=d.getFullYear(); It began replacing the 4L60E transmission in many vehicles starting in the 2006 model year. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. It has factory size tires 275/55/20. R.F. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. 10R80 transmission swap? OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. Renew Subscription The overdrive ratio thats added is 0.75:1. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. None of the above categories describe me. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. Jeff Smith has had a passion for cars since he began working at his grandfather's gas station at the age 10. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. Since 2003, Jeff has held various positions at Car Craft (including editor), has written books on small block Chevy performance, and even cultivated an impressive collection of 1965 and 1966 Chevelles. The Novak Guide to the GM 4L80E Automatic Transmission Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. 6L80E Transmission Guide & Information Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. It appears that GM has put a very minor taper into the cover and possibly the piston as well. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. See how the ratios have swapped places? 10L80 Performance Rebuild. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. var d=new Date(); Some Tahoe and Yukon HD 6.0L, not hybrid, may also have this transmission but most have 6L80 or a 10 speed 10L80. US Shift Stand-Alone Transmission Controllers Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: JT. It also contains a durable transmission pan, reliable gear seat, EPC, a 13-vane pump assembly, high-performance cooler, hardened stator shaft with rings and specialized control solenoids. 6L80E Torque Converter Power Raptor Full Size Non-Billet Number 88-6L80-1, now with Billet Cover Option. The taper may exist so that the clutch surface goes flat when the cover is welded together were not sure. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. Upon full inspection, the unit is loaded with metal, and the pump (bell housing) is worn to the point of needing remachining or replacement. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. Production Began 2017 Bolt and gasket inlcuded. This is a normal and desired behavior. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Helping transmission shops achievesuccessful and profitable operation. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. All I can find is that it is sealed from the rear and just needs a new tail housing but some say its got to be completely rebuilt from the inside. 6L / 8L / 10L Transmission If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. Indirectly affects shift control. Thanks for the question! 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. GM 10L80 Transmission: Specs & Updates - Transmission Repair Cost Guide The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. I am currently planning on a high compression LS2 and a progressive nitrous kit but before another 4L80E goes in there is a 6,8, or 10 speed not an option? $499.00. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. Ive not done the math on total surface area, but its likely the clutch would not last long engaging 450 hp. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. Transmission Fluid Change flush 2007-2012 Silverado GMC Sierra 6L80E It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA Many who work in the dealerships have become privy to the immediate failures that occur in this unit. 6L80/6L90/8L90/10L90 AN Transmission Cooler Manifold Our Price: $150.00 Out of stock We now offer a convenient AN trans cooler manifold solution for the 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, and 10L90 transmission. It all comes down to the extra rigidity and flatness of the surfaces. The TMBX and the JMBX have similar covers and use the same woven carbon friction material, yet the JMBX fails catastrophically at a very high rate and the TMBX cover rarely fails. The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. The new 2019 Camaro gets the a10 but, Its not the a10 (10L90) from the ZL1. Legal/Privacy. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. DT-51190 Transmission Oil Fill Adapter Tool Alt - Freedom Racing Tool and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. (incl. It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. GM 6L45E 6L50E 6L80E 6L90E TCM2650 transmission controller harness PML GM 6L90, 6L90E Deep Transmission Pan - PML YourCovers Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. By Wayne Colonna. Ford 10R80 Transmission Problems & Solutions - Next Gen Drivetrain What is your recomendation for towing? Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. 2. The gearing spread is a very capable 6.04, with ratios in each gear as follows: First: 4.02, Second: 2.36, Third: 1.53, Fourth: 1.15, Fifth: .085, Sixth: 0.67, Reverse: 3.06. Sixth 1.28 PDF Service Bulletin - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Stock capacity . Team ATF builder Super Dave doing his magic on assembling the First 10L80 transmission ATFSpeed has had come thru the shop. document.write("- "+yr); Established Member. Ask Away! with Jeff Smith: Explaining 6-, 8-, and 10 - OnAllCylinders The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. Account. 10 Speed 10L80 Transmission Build! ATFSpeed - YouTube Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. 10L80 Transmission. Copyright 2012 It does not have a direct 1:1 ratio like the 4L80E and 4L60E, which is worth noting. Pre-Owned. It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". Where Did The Front Pump Go on Ford's New 10R80 10-Speed Trans? They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. Did the converter clutch material just wear out, thus allowing the clutch and cover to go metal-on-metal? 4L60E Vs. 4L80E Transmission Differences And How To Swap It - Mechanic Base First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. I & II Autostart / Autostop function disabled (if equipped), Transmission Adaptive Pressure Control and adaptive shift values Frozen, High line pressure (harsh shifts and engagements). I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. I am interested in enhancing my vehicles performance. The complaint is usually associated with the vehicle sitting for a while (after it has been running at operating temperature). While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. Chevrolet transmission dimensions, gear ratios and oil quantity SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). Your car is quick! Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. 11 Things You Need to Know about Ford & GM's 10-Speed Transmission LS/6L80E into G Body (El Camino) - GBodyForum lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. 8L80E For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). Special engine computer programming strategies may be required. The CIDAS (Casting Integrated Direct Acting Solenoid) are all normally low solenoids. Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. To achieve this flip-flopped damper orientation in the JMBX, the profile and shape of the piston is radically different from the TMBX. Im thinking 3.73. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. Bowler Transmission Cooler Manifold for GM 6, 8, & 10 speed automatic GM Transmissions that work with a Vortec or LS Motor This transmission is out of a Tur. Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. The solenoids can be replaced separately, but only with the same type of solenoid. That is just the beginning. should check for clearance. LS Swap Automatic Transmission Guide - Chevy Hardcore Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process.