Open the pressure relief valve. Empties the water pipes so the next time youll need hot water fast, it will meet less resistance in the piping and it will arrive at the faucet in a matter of seconds. Well tackle the installation and running costs of a circulating pump in full near the end. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. To reduce that time significantly (and stop needlessly wasting water), we can install hot water recirculating pump. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Also, make sure you get the 1- pipe for the horizontal manifold, which will help even out the flow of the recirculators. So, saving water is the main reason for calling a recirculation pump eco-friendly. Then what are we waiting for? You can change the cold water inlet thermistor if necessary. Some brands/models dont include it. You can turn it off during work hours, over the night, when you go on vacations, and so on. It usually occurs due to an open or shorted sensor. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. The pump works on the existing pipes; it basically sends the leftover water back to the boiler or the heater. It also may be as simple as a dip switch in the tankless unit itself. Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. Is there a way to tell if the cold pipe is circulatory/return line or cold water from the mains? Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. The operations manuals above cover all Navien NPE-A and NPE-S series condensing tankless water heaters. Now, we have to check if these costs are balanced out by the water savings. 14 Culprits To Check For Now, MMBTU To MMSCFD Calculator For Natural Gas + Chart, 8 Best Infrared Heaters For Indoors, Patios, Garages (With ECO Thermostats), AGM Battery Voltage Charts: 12V, 24V Deep Cycle Battery Voltage, Lead-Acid Battery Voltage Chart For 6V, 12V, 24V, 48V Batteries, Natural Gas MMSCFD To MMBTU/Day Calculator + Chart. Is this noise normal coming from my Navien tankless heater? We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. These are the kinds of issues that can occur if you aren't aware of the automatic appliances that are connected to your system (and don't shut them off along with the water). Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Ensure you mount the pump securely. Is there a check valve? Turns out that it was the temperature of the return water was high enough to stop the recirculation. Also you need not be concerned about pump damage. Does It Save Money? This type of hot water recirculation system is most appropriate for new homes; homes that are in the 3rd or 4th part of the building process. To remedy this issue, turn off the heater for some time and restart it. This is where the timer and temperature sensor come in. Using a corrosion-free flow sensor made of stainless steel is a better option. Change the thermistor if needed. Turn off the unit and check the valves wiring and condition. You can turn off the recirculating pump in various ways. If the external recirc is set up without this it will just run, defeating the purpose of hot water on demand. Ask an Expert Home Improvement Questions HVAC Questions Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. So you'll find the same info whether you're looking for the Navien 240A manual, the Navien NPE-240S manual, Navien NPE-180A manual or similar. The short answer is no, your water will still be pure. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. When the water is sufficiently hot, the temperature sensor will shut off the power to the recirculation pump to conserve energy. When building a house, its smart to think about hot water recirculation as well. It has a timer that turns on the pump at regular intervals, mostly during peak usage times. There is some issue with the front panel key. The E615 tells you about the irregularity in input and memory. Perhaps not everyone is familiar with the newer manual. Here we will cover all the important parts of hot water recirculations pumps, including: You will get an overall look at how you can use increased water pressure by a circulation pump for almost instantaneous hot water access. You can install it yourself (DIY circulation pump installation) or call a professional; more on that in the part about how much do hot water recirculating pumps cost. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Follow the steps below to clean your Navien water heater; Note: If you are unsure of your ability to handle this task, hire a professional to clean the heater. You can set it to run in the morning before work, and in the evening. This is known as recirculating home pump comfort system (Type #2) and its the most popular way to get hot water quickly. (std. Maintaining Your Central Heating Pump | Living by HomeServe Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. Well, If you overuse your pump, it will start malfunctioning. The heating supply thermistor is defective. Power Waste Turn off the device and examine the APSs condition. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide Press the reset button to reset your device. It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. Confirm the thermistor and wiring is in good condition. Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman. The disadvantages of recirculating pumps include waiting for cold waters (its a less-known disadvantage), having to install additional wiring, and so on. By installing a hot water circulation pump, you will have a hot shower right away. Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. What disadvantages, beside cost???? This serves two functions: You save water. When I hooked hoses to the service pipes, the system still produced a strong, steady flow of water, seeming to not drain. He says both the master bath and the kitchen. $257.16. Going off the grid sounds noble, satisfying and eco-friendly. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. For moving the pump to another sink, you would have to talk with a plumber. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Hello Lucy, in most cases, you have that option. This setup is very similar to the one I have with my 40 gallon tank setup with recirc/return line by using an X10 home automation module to program the remote to turn the pump on for 4 minutes and automatically turn off whenever someone presses it before taking a shower. This is done every time you close the faucet. Full Recirculation Pump System - Going this route adds additional piping to your system, allowing for a "hot water loop" to be created, ensuring the water doesn't end up sitting and going cold in your pipes and instead is recirculated, ready for the next time you turn on the tap. Video of the Day Step 2 Check the three wires are connected to the plug terminals. After using this amount of time, hardware gets old and starts to malfunction. Then descale a flush the heater following the steps listed below. That is a premium service however. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Because the recirculation pump ran with no water, the motor ended up burning out. It is an indication that your warm water outlet thermistor has some problems. This is because the motherboard or control board is the units brain responsible for receiving and transmitting information in the heater. ($0.05 $0.22/h), How Much Does 1000 Watts Cost Per Hour? If your pump does this, then it is to be expected, otherwise it sounds like the hot and cold are mixing at some point and you'd need to find out where . Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. Just locate the air bleeder valve on top of the recirculation system. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. Contents show Prevention of Modern Slavery Progress Reports. $197.08 $ 197. Recirculate temp in is 67, temp out when just recirculating is 67. Navien tankless water heater recirculation | 2016-04-01 | Plumbing and For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. Worst case is your plumber might have to call since they require them to maintain it. How to Flush a Tankless Water Heater (Step-by-Step Procedure) I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. You have to inspect the sensors connectors to confirm they are not wet and fixed correctly. I recall it was p23 but it was definitely larger than p20. Therefore, I can't drain the system. [Fix It Easily], Ball Valve Handle Broke Off [Step By Step Solutions]. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. How? Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump - amazon.com On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. Otherwise, turn it off. Heres the deal on how to get the hot water faster from a water heater: When we turn on any faucet, the hot water needs to travel from the hot water heater to the faucet. The estimated annual operating cost of the Navien tankless water heater, based on the yearly estimated residential use per US Energy Department test criteria, is $191. Pump the white vinegar into the cold side, up through your water heater, and out the hot side. "The recirculating pump costs about the same as operating a 25-watt light bulb," says Umberto Griccino, a commercial plumber and HouseGrail consultant. Then, turn it on again. That install is exactly as specified in the newer manuals. Unplug the power to your Navien water heater. JavaScript is disabled. What You Should Know Before Shutting off the Water Therefore most homeowners try to cut down costs wherever possible, bypassing the recommended installation procedure. Remove the intake filter and properly wash it using a brush beneath running water. While you may have a general understanding of the listed electrical issue above, you should not attempt to handle any electrical work unless you are a licensed electrician. Do not advertise or try to compare pricing. air), Sensible Heat (BTU/hr) = 1.1 x CFM x t (std. It depends on how the recirculation pump is installed, and some other factors, plumbers usually know this stuff pretty well. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Dont hesitate to switch the tees around if you get them backward. The electric recirculation pump uses this other pipe to pump the hot water back into the boiler or water heater. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. There are more options, for example- you can buy a wifi socket. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. I have an NR240A for about 10 years now. if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . but you stopped short for me. A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. Not sure I am understanding. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Tankless water heater - not consistent hot water output, Plumbing Manifold Use With a Tankless Hot Water Heater, No hot water if hot water recirculator pump is shut off, warm water only when we replaced the hot water heater with a tankless heater. Navien tankless water heater recirculation March 31, 2016 At the push of a button, Navien 's HotButton accessory activates the internal recirculation pump and gas-fired burner to heat up the water in the supply lines. Another sign is the error code display. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. If we dont use it, we waste a lot of water. Then what are we waiting for? Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. There are filters that prevent the sediment from entering the water flow. The default setting is usually around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. It can occur due to an open or short sensor. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? Please see below for important warranty information and a list of models that this part fits. Press either the Up and the Down button to switch between any of these recirculation settings: The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. How To Turn Off A Water Recirculating Pump? Ask Your Own HVAC Question b55db6.jpeg 6a7761.jpeg ee4ed0.jpeg cc7ba2.jpeg 8ec6a3.jpeg 32aa59.jpeg Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. The water heater will not provide hot water instantly. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. In compliance with California's . The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. Then turn on the heater and then your pump. In existing homes, adding an additional pipe for a full recirculating pump system is often too expensive; its just dont worth it, according to HVAC specialists. The total amount of water needed is 2 gallons + 1.5 gallons + (3 gallons * length of shower). We might be able to do something about it. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. This chapter will reveal all the possible culprits that cause the recirculation pump of your Navien to make a humming noise. link to Why Does My RV Carbon Monoxide Detector Keep Going Off? I can figure out occupied or not from a home automation or alarm system. Turn the unit off. If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. For example, you may damp it into a bathtub, pushing the water through the isolation side on hot. Therefore, when it malfunctions, it is a sign that the heater has another major underlying issue. The major difference with hot water pumps in new homes is that you can install a full recirculation pump system (Type #1). Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. I have the newest version pcb since I just bought the tankless. You May Forget to Purge The Recirculation Pump, 03. You will not get hot water instantly. Hi Howy, well, the circulating pumps are usually powered by electricity, so they dont use gas. Low gas supply which prevents proper heating of water, Damaged flow sensor preventing proper supply of gas to the heater. Can I swap out the mainboard in the NR240A to an NPE240A board to get all that features? This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. . air), Latent Heat (BTU/hr) = 0.69 x CFM x gr. It only takes a minute to sign up. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Question: How much does it cost to buy a water recirculating pump? Get in touch with Navien technical support or a professional heater repairman to fix the issue. You need to run white vinegar through the system, to descale the water heater. Navien Flow Sensor. Here are some of the leading causes of cold water production; Which means there isnt enough time for the water to heat up. I noticed my apartment building installed one and at that time the whole water pressure was low. Sure there is likely some distance between the recirculation line and the fixture which should me some time till hot water reaches. Now, that comes to the question, can I turn off my hot water recirculating pump? Brand: Navien. Turn off the recirculation when the house is not occupied, in order to save even more energy. Navien Recirculation Settings: Everything You Should Know Navien Recirculation Pump Noise [4 Easy Solutions], 02. Does anybody have any thoughts of what I should get checked out? I may be able to correct this if I solve the mystery on where the dedicated return line might be. Do we keep the flames on after cooking? The heater turns off automatically when the flue pipe surpasses 149 degrees Fahrenheit. It is affordable and can easily fix your problem. So, ensure you purge the air out of the recirculation pump to operate the unit quietly. If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. Not only that, by now you should know how to turn it off and why its important to do so. Return this item for free. Because a water recirculating pump provides us instant hot water. Remove and clean the cold air intake filter. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a tasteless, colorless, odorless, and highly poisonous gas which can be deadly to humans in high concentrations. The second method seems to suggest the cold water at sinks will most likely have been run through the hot water tank. Timers and wifi sockets are quite cheap. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. 2 Types Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps Used In Homes, Type 2: Recirculating Home Pump Comfort System, Advantages And Disadvantages Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps, How Much Do Hot Water Circulation Pumps Cost + Installation Cost + Running Cost? A place for plumbing advice and help. What Parts Are In The Hot Water Circulation Pump Kits? Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. This made me suspicious that water was coming from the mains. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. The process to take apart the fitting which holds the flow sensor to "blow" it out clean is arduous, requiring drainage of the system etc., and has not solved the problem. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. 2. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. We hope we were able to help you out with our guide. If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. 30000466A Navien Circulation Pump NAPU9GLPCT33 . It could be open or shorted. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. Yes, you can turn it off by yourself. A while ago we had a plumber/friend install a Navien tankless water heater. Flush the vinegar out of your water heaters. Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). The water heater is set to 120 F (49 C) by default. If your system is re-circed as close as possible to the fixtures (ask yourself do I have two hot waterlines for each fixture?) Navien has an aftermarket add on hot point or something that lets you control when the recirc is on. We do all the time-consuming research and testing for you. Turning off your water recirculating pump reduces damage. Is there a recirculating pump for the tankless water heater known as Trutankless? Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. Or invest in a larger water heater. NEC 310.16 Table: Copper And Aluminum Wire Ampacity Chart, NEC 310.12 Table: Wire Sizes For 100-400 Amp Services (83% Rule), kWh To Therms Calculator + Conversion Chart (1 kWh = 0.03412 Therms), MMBTU To Therms Calculator + Chart (1 MMBTU = 10 Therms), Therms To MMBTU Calculator + Chart (1 Therm = 1/10 MMBTU), AWG To Circular Mils Chart (For 4/0 AWG To 20 AWG). Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump - YouTube 0:00 / 4:21 Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump RCGooner2002 240 subscribers Subscribe. In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. My pipes arent big enough 2. Check the wiring and cold water inlet two thermistors and make sure both are in good condition. The error code E445 tells about the defect of the bypass mixing valve. You can return the item for any reason in new and unused condition: no shipping charges ; You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. Are these pumps just a luxury that enables you to get hot water lightning fast, or do they actually save you money? There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. Increase water pressure at the water heater. Let the vinegar cycle through the cold side for 45 minutes. Once again, there are a few different things it could be. Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem.