II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. MQA decoding Additionally, MSBs robust in-house design enables the finest quality playback of PCM and native DSD, while our low impedance circuitry drives your amplification directly without adding coloration or buffering noise. Would love to hear your opinions of which was better and why? Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. You could spend less and get close to the sound of this DAC, for sure. Chord Msb Dac Dave Vs Discrete [FZ8OTP] - amministrato.to.it I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. But dont take our word for it. We feel this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. Point 75 EmmLab Dac2 I paid 9K$ for this on 2010. Ok, I looked a prat but it proves that the separate PSUs are actually doing something rather than being there for show, though they do look rather cool in themselves. While it's an easy setup to wrangle at a show, it does seem like it wasn't doing either component any favours! I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. I can see that in an A/B comparison, many other DACs sound more impressive than DAVE/Blu2. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. There's 340 pages packed with HiFi Reviews, Industry Interviews and much more. Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. You are using an out of date browser. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. The end users ears are the only ears that count. But even with great preamps, a great DAC in a low noise environment, will produce a more transparent sound going direct to the amps than through the preamp. To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. EAR FILLERS HiFi Pig Playlists on Qobuz, Transatlantic Dispatches: A New World Disorder, Astell&Kern Launch Three New Products At High End Munich 2022. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. How is Chord Dave? | Super Best Audio Friends for instance, the Select II is modular (customers can easily change modules in seconds)so it has the ability to quickly modify its inputs to allow for optimization of various interfaces. Supported Formats (Depending on Input) 44.1 kHz to 3.072kHz PCM up to 32 bits 1xDSD, 2xDSD, 4xDSD, 8xDSD Accepts DSD via DoP on all inputs, Digital Inputs 1x RCA Coaxial 1x XLR 1x Word-Sync Out 2x Toslink 2x Isolated slots for optional modules, XLR Outputs Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance 300 High Gain setting Impedance 150 Low Gain setting. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. So take it for what it is. Tellurium Silver Diamond USB and Chord Blu. There are so. I don't think any of us have heard the Dave, and we don't have any interest. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. Astrostar here, said it completely blew away any dac he had before, and mind you, he has the entry level AC model. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. I'm doing this off the top of my head. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. What effect does reconstruction filter have? The Base module is used on the two lower DACs (including this one) and then the Preamp Output Stage for the top two DACs in the range. MSB Technology Discrete Modular DAC Page 2. Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by mtoc, Jun 9, 2016. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. Thanks for the suggestions Wisnon. 2. About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . Strangely from this company is lack of any anti-aliasing on the text causing pixels to not be seen in the fonts chosen! Our publication is supported by its audience. Its an interesting setup with everything from design through to milling the chassis to building the circuit boards being done in-house. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. Actual auditioning of the unit prior to purchase is paramount. Thanks guys! I have had Dave in my system. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? of the 5 systems are completely different, our rooms are completely different Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. At this kind of price, it puts Chord DAVE as being direct competition and I said that DAVE was the best DAC Id heard back in 2018. I havent heard the Rockna. For sure with Hugo and Qutenot even debatable. I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. Click to expand. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. Thank you all for your answers. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. the Select II pushes the analog to be its best. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. Too many DACs> Too many amps> Too many headphones. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. And differences at that level can be good. Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. I have a PS Audio DSD ATM and it is also on the warm side which is good, but I'm thinking I need something more neutral due to my speakers being fairly warm and full bodied in their own right to take my system to the next level. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. I recently bought a DAC with a digital volume control precisely to bypass the preamp, but when I compared the two approaches there was very little between them. But in the specific case of the BADA and PM2, if you wish for me to be more precise, then taking into account that I only had the BADA ref for a very short time, the bottom line was that I didn't feel at the time that the difference between the PM2 in my system was significant enough to make it worth the energy to change components or the potential financial loss involved in a trade. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. Its a clever thing meaning that their products are repairable and upgradeable for example, you can have a card that is set up for single-ended outputs or balanced XLR outputs (for review we have the balanced version). Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. retail client forgets that most audio stores and audio distribution companies With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. conversation. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. After that you are GOLDEN. Taiko Audio Extreme > Sablon Audio Reserva Elite USB2022/Sablon Audio Reserva Ethernet2020> Aqua Formula XHDV2 > Sablon Audio King Sablon Interconnects > LDR pre > PuLSar45 DC SE amp > Sablon Audio Reserva speaker cables (pigtailed) > Avantgarde Duo Omega( Duelund xover). Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. This is because one PSU is supplying juice to modules including the screen and USB input etc but not to the output module. Msb discrete dac vs dcs bartok - wfi.pizzeria-kandel.de It's my understanding that the Wavedream only Like x 5 List The lo-res display also makes menu ]set-up fiddly because it doesn't have enough space to display words. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. Complete electrical isolation The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. And in the case of a great DAC with great amps in a system with very low noise, going direct to the amps can be magical. The world's largest high-end audio community. All rights reserved. How hot does the Chord DAC get? Best DACs comparison test result [[My Subjective Opinion]] DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. Didn't like it at all. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends. This is a dealers email comment to me about comparisons he did. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. Different songs will sound better with different sources - Different horses for different courses. Now to include the HMS. The best upgrade for Dave easy. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. other dacs I have enjoyedin no particular order; I would not call this second tier; but I prefer what hear from my Select II to what Ive heard from these. I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. . I can leave my hand on it as long as I want to. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). You are using an out of date browser. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their If you go reference you will never look back. DLNA Protocol. And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. How does it compare? comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. more might come to mind and I will add them. those surpass any other digital choice. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. In terms of sound quality, it's the best digital front end I . Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This DAC is 11,000 and as such, it is a considerable investment to make, but I would suggest that this is not stupid money for the kind of transparency and clarity it brings. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. It's too damn expensive, full stop. Along with an integrated clock, changing this card allows switching between single-ended and balanced outputs. Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. MQA decoding Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. Sonically it is very much as its name suggests and converts files faithfully and without loss or (importantly) embellishment. Good points by all. Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp) How r they comparing to the MSB Select 2 and Trinity? T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive, I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. I haven't yet come across one DAC that is best and will completely dominate other great DACs across all audio evaluation parameters. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. The Premier DAC Features - MSB Technology Almost all gear I hear is pretty good and some are great but the most expensive ones are not universally the best to my ears. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. personal preference. They are excellent pairing. @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. It's just more financially viable to me for the performance and price ratio. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. Audiogon Discussion Forum Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also CD - SACD DAC player Music Server MSB Technology, CH precision,Chord RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. However, there are two inputs for external PSUs and a little doodad/adapter that allows the use of one external PSU. its that good. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. Impedance 100 Low Gain setting. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! You must log in or register to reply here. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.